Jun 9, 2020
Today I’m speaking with Tommy Barker. I’ve
known Tommy since he was a kid running around Eagle Creek and
Clive. Following in his Mom and Dad’s
footsteps, Steve and Nona Barker, he has made quite a name for
himself as an advocate and connector in the Skateboard
Industry.
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Show Notes
So this is an outdoor biz podcast. Let's start out with how you got introduced to the outdoors.
I
mean, I was really kind of born into the outdoors, I grew up in a
town called Elfin Forest, where at that time there was maybe six
kids. I was 30 minutes from the nearest Seven-Eleven. I felt like I
was out in the outdoors. We had llamas and that kind of segues into
how I was introduced to the outdoors. At that time, my parents
would take me and my sisters and seven or eight
Lamas and go up into this Sierra for a few weeks at a
time.
“For
those of you that don't know Elfin Forest is East of Carlsbad and
completely developed now, back then there was nothing. So you were
living in a new development then weren't you?”
Oh
yeah. I grew up on a dirt road. I had to go to school in Rancho
Santa Fe, so every day I would drive on a dirt road and have to go
through a river on the way to school. You know, so really rural
living. But at the same time, we're only 30 minutes away from real
city living.
How old were you when you picked up a skateboard?
We
had a little cement-like basketball court in our front yard. And
then, you know actually I've tracked this. This is an interesting
story, cause I've kind of figured out the origin. We always had
skateboards in our garage and I'm pretty sure that it was
Jim Alesi.
One of the old shippers at Eagle Creek was a Del Mar Skate Ranch
Local. So him and Bill Billing, I think they left a skateboard at
the house and that's what I picked up. So my skateboard industry
origin story goes all the way back to Del Mar Skate Ranch. It is
really interesting now that I'm learning more about the skateboard
industry history and how instrumental Del Mar was to keep this
torch of skateboarding alive in the dead years.
Yeah.
I mean, it's really funny now knowing the history. I went to La
Costa Canyon, which, I thought La Costa was the corniest place on
the face of the planet when I was going there. But then, you know,
fast forward years later, I'm doing Skateboarding Hall of Fame
Stuff and I'm talking to all the Logan Earth ski guys and some of
the original skateboarders. And they're like, we grew up on the
black hills of La Costa. They made it sound like the toughest place
on the face of the planet. Cause I mean, in the early seventies it
probably was. La Costa was basically built on mob money and these
guys just found these crazy Hills and that's what they would bomb
down. And we didn't know any of this history in high school or
anything.
I was checking out some of your movies and videos online. I saw a lot of crashing. What was that all about?
What
do you mean?
“One of them, I forget I was watching
apartment C or some episode of
apartment C, and guys were getting blown up all over the
place.”
It's
I mean, it’s pushing the limits now. It's funny because I think
I've always just been an accident-prone child. Like I broke my
elbow pitching, you know? I broke my back
snowboarding.
How many times you've broken your ankle, 57 times?
No
like four good ones, so those last two are from skateboarding. But
I've always just been an accident-prone child. Actually, one of my
things like when we talk about running the Skateboarding Industry
Association, one of my
high horses was that we've been painted as extreme. I actually did
one of the first studies comparing accident rates to participation
rates or hospitalization patient rates. And skateboarding's
actually middle of the road. We're about like basketball or soccer,
you know, ankle and knee injuries.
Now
that I'm older and we're having a resurgence of going out and
playing soccer again, way more people get hurt. I mean, what you
probably saw was I tried to drop in switch or backward on a vert
ramp or something. That was my claim to fame right there. Trying to
drop in thinking I was like a Bob Burnquist or one of these big
famous Vert skaters and just tumbled backward.
So you were involved in creating the Encinitas Skate Plaza and you do some volunteer work with Rolling and from the Heart. What volunteer projects are you involved with these days?
Its
real name is Poods Park. And actually Ian “Poods” Barry was a
friend of mine who passed away and his death was the impetus of
starting Rolling From the Heart. I was involved for many years.
I've kind of pulled back in last a year or two as I’ve gotten more
involved with other skateboard industry projects. But it's
afterschool programs for at-risk youth. I mean, working with kids
totally changed me. Cause we were always like, the people at
skateparks who, you know, are hollering at us “get out of the way”,
and we're like, hollering back “go watch your kid” you know? And
then when you actually have to deal with kids, it changes your
perspective on things. So it just makes you happy that this kid has
an outlet through skateboarding, something to do, something that
he's passionate about.
Rollin’ From The Heart
was a big one. My favorite memory
of that was, um, we had a program similar to Monarch school.
Monarch is in downtown San Diego, it's a school for children
affected by homelessness. Social Services has to recommend you, but
it's really how every school should be. So every Friday they serve
hot meals. They have parent-teacher conferences every week, they
have a boutique onsite because one of their things is you can't
learn if you're in two-day-old clothes. So if they see that you're
not wearing like clean clothes a few days in a row you can go on
and get that. I think there were like 12 different types of
counseling. So there's art therapy, music therapy, there's
everything. It's like a 360-degree view of what's available in
education. So I was like, I wish I had this stuff when I was in
high school. I probably would've felt more connected in my high
school if we would have had those things. So that's Rolling From
The Heart. And then the last three, four years, we're in our third
official year right now I'm a chairman of the board and co-founder
of the College Skateboarding Education Foundation
and we're the first-ever national
scholarship for skateboarders.
Tell us about the College Skateboarding Education Foundation.
Our
big thing is we give out scholarships. So we've given out I think,
18 scholarships for about $20,000 in our first two years. Really
it's just creating connections between education and skateboarding.
The three co-founders it's me and then it's Neftalie Williams, he's a professor at USC. And the other co-founder
is Keegan Guizzard he went to NC state and actually started the skate club
there. One of the first skate clubs in the US.
So,
we're kind of like the three bears. I had a very non-traditional
education experience. Keegan had the very traditional education
experience and that Naphtali has just gone over the top, he's about
to be the first doctor of skateboarding.
Where do you guys get the funding? How do you raise money?
Well,
we're learning all the time. How to raise money. Some of it comes
from brands. A lot of it's just asking friends, family traditional
face to face fundraising, and we get donations from our website, .
We sell some tee shirts and stuff, but really every year we're
learning.
Right
before the pandemic hit. We did a big dinner at the Berric skate
park, which is in downtown LA. It's a famous private indoor skate
park. It was a fancy dinner and most recent fundraiser we did, we
had, I think 45 or 50 people there.
In my
first fundraiser, I had five people there. So my theme of this year
is, admit to everyone that we're still learning. I feel like no one
does that anymore. We're learning and adapting every year to learn
how to raise money and how to drive energy towards CSEF. I guess
this would be my way of pushing back on the
“fake it till you make
it”. Cause it's admitting
that you're learning, you know? So it's more of a journey and there
are a few things leading up to that fundraiser where people were
kind of freaking out over lack of ticket sales and stuff. And I had
to be like, guys, pause, we are learning. This is our first one. If
we get one person to show up it's a win. We're probably going to
break even, that's all that matters.
Talk to us about Jenkem magazine, what do you do with them?
I'm the
director of partnerships and sales. So basically, I'm dealing with
a lot of the same people I dealt with at the International Association of Skateboard
Companies. But it's
basically just working with skateboard industry brands on content
and advertising.
So
it's, um, you know, it's funny because Jenkem made their name in
the New York skate scene, as you can tell, I am not a New Yorker.
I've been the person on the West coast and Ian, the founder and I
have been friends for a number of years and we're quite the one-two
combo.
Of all the things you've done so far, what are you most proud of? You've done so many things for the skate community.
Oh,
geez. I mean, when
Pood’s Park opened, I
really led the charge. I gave speeches in front of everyone. They
were going to move the skate park to phase two, which we called
phase never. And, skateboarding in Encinitas, I always call it
Hollywood of the skateboard industry. We have Tony Hawk. We have
Grant Brittain. We have Mike Burnett, who runs Thrasher. We have
all these household names inside skateboarding. So the city was
kind of looking at us like, Oh, you guys probably have some money
or something. It's like, you know how much money you guys have
spent on baseball? And you've never created a pro baseball player?
There are 20 pro skaters that have come out of this town. We
deserve a world-class facility to skateboard.
And
that's what ended up being Pood’s park at the time, I was like, oh,
I'm never going to top this, you know, and now that
CSEF has
really taken off I'm really proud of what we've been able to grow
into. We were having a really good year pre-COVID. My goal was this
year was to give $30,000 scholarships to 30 kids. And we were on
track to do that. And then COVID hit and we pulled back on
fundraising just because we felt it wasn't the right time. It was
hard when, you know, we have 30, 40% unemployment or something to
go and ask people for money. So we have sweatshirts available to
sell. We're not making hard asks or anything.
Do you still get on a skateboard every now and again?
Oh
yeah. I skated Lake Crowley park by myself the other day, it was
really fun. I mean my skating fluctuates as you said, I have bad
ankles. I tried to play soccer two years ago and I've been dealing
with an Achilles strain ever since. So that comes and goes. I can
still hike. This is really the most I've been into hiking.
Hopefully, I tell my dad this before he listens but I'm planning on
hiking Mount Tom. I told you, I checked the geotag on Instagram and
it's a woman saying that this was the most grueling hike I've ever
done.
But I
have some friends here and about a week or two ago we were all
talking about it and they're like, let's just do it. Let's wait
until the snow melts and let's do this. I think we're gonna camp at
Horton Lakes and go from there.
Do you have any suggestions or advice for folks wanting to get into the skateboard or outdoor biz?
I
used to say don't, it's like a rule. But you know, from the person
who's had every skateboarding job, it's kind of disingenuous to say
that. Every time I've almost left the skateboard industry another
skateboarding job pops up. When I came out of high school, I worked
at Blackbox, which was the biggest skateboard company in the world
at the time. And they just literally acquired a shoe company,
realized what it meant to have a shoe company and hired every
skateboarder in North County who had just come out of high school
and that's how I really got my foot in the door. At that time it
was more just be a passionate skateboarder, but now it's such a
competitive marketplace of getting jobs that you should probably if
you want to work in marketing, go get a marketing degree or a
liberal arts degree or figure out what it is you want to do. Kind
of call your shot.
That's even what we preach at CSEF, we really want to
have kids who have a plan for their education. Don't go into it and
just like, major in surf kind of thing. So if you want to work in
the skateboard industry, there's all these different jobs and
pathways. And then go find mentors and people who are doing it and
ask them, how could I get from A to B? And then you know,
skateboarding, the marketplace of it is cyclical. So have a talent
or a skill that if skateboarding slows down, you could go and get a
job in an outdoor business. You know, they're all kind of similar
tactics and skills. So it's really like, if you grow one of those,
then you can kind of figure out what industry you want to work
in.
I
always say skateboarding is about 20 years behind outdoor, but when
you hear the stories of the founders of the outdoor industry in the
seventies, they're all dirty hippies, wild dudes, you know, they
were all partying and like any industry, they're grown up and now
they have all the various disciplines and jobs that mainstream
corporations have.
If you were able to hang a huge banner at the entrance of Outdoor Retailer, or Surf Expo, what would it say?
Um,
please retire.
I
mean the modern skateboard industry was born in the 1990s and it
was all these guys, all these companies that were founded in the
early nineties and then again in the early two thousand and it's
the same people in marketing positions then and now. And I think
outdoor, it's a little bit more where guys kind of actually
transitioned out and become consultant kind of guys. But that
really doesn't happen. I think there's definitely been a ceiling
for my generation. Even just starting brands or something is tough.
In the early nineties could start a brand for not that much capital
buy-in and grow it slowly. And now if you really want to start like
a legit business, it's a couple of million dollars and there are no
banks loaning you money at this point. So, I mean, it's really
telling people like there's a whole generation ready to come up
behind you. Let them come up and give them opportunities. When I
was at Blackbox, one of my mentors, Chad, who was the general
manager there, he was younger than I am now, running a $40 million
business. And that just blows my mind. He had 120 employees and
they seem so mature and everything. And I don't know how I'd handle
that now. But again, we didn't exactly have those same
opportunities.
The
way I met my cofounder Neftalie, he used to have a class on
skateboarding, arts culture, and industry at USC. I was for like
three years in a row as a guest speaker in his class. One of the
trippiest things that ever happened to me is walking into a USC
class and having a kid, giving a presentation to introduce me
suddenly this kid was going through my LinkedIn telling my history.
And I was like, Whoa. But then two football players fell asleep on
me while I was presenting. So that brought me down real quick. But
I really loved the value of that class because even going back to
me, growing up Eagle Creek. It's like, you learn the systems of
businesses, how everything's fit together. And I think like, even
though like we'll get into me being a little shit at Eagle Creek, I
still, would ask everyone what they did and that was so valuable to
me. And then when I went to Black Box, I already understood how
product merchandise and everything worked together. So I think that
class was kind of the same thing. It's like, you're learning each
facet in the industry and how they work together.
I don't know if I was there yet or if this is an urban legend, but the Eagle Creek shipping guys boxed you up and threatened to ship you off to the Philippines or something?
That
was one. But then what they also did was in the middle of August,
they shrink-wrapped me to a cart and put me out in the parking lot
for a few hours. I was a kid from Elfin Forest who had no people
around. I’d get to Eagle Creek and I just was like, people talk to
me. I feel most at home now or most comfortable at a business in a
warehouse. Because TC, Vince, all the guys, like those are the guys
who were like my older brothers or something. And so when I was at
Black Box or in a few jobs I would try to keep one task in the
warehouse just so I could go hang out with the boys.
And
then once I started really working at Clive, I think I started when
I was 12. I remember cause it was before I could even get a work
permit. And I started just filing all for Rudy Vasquez, all of his
dealer forms. He was doing sales and I just would file all this
paperwork. And then that grew and the first big task they gave me
was I had three months over summer to put together 1200 POP packs.
And I had to create my own assembly line. That was a big one. Then
later, probably around that same time, but looking back I think
this was more of a punishment, but they forgot to put the
international distributor information in the catalog. So I had to
sticker all of them. It was like weeks of just stickering catalogs
and stickering catalogs. And now looking back, they probably were
like, Oh, at least will keep him occupied and quiet for a while.
They put me way in the corner.
That's where the name paint chip comes from.
“The reason I
nicknamed you paint chip was that you were a chip off the old
block. You were similar to your dad, you guys kind of look alike,
you walk alike, and you were just always hanging around. You're
very curious and I remember you jumping in and doing stuff without
even being asked. I didn't know eventually though, that you would
follow him in all his advocacy and all those things too. You've
done an admirable job.”
I
always thought it was "paint chip" cause you thought I hated paint
chips or something.
“We're all
glad to see you learned along the way. And you're an admirable
paint chip off the old block. Your Mom and Dad raised you
well.”
Do you have any daily routines you use to keep your sanity?
Yeah,
Rose, and I go for a walk every day. That's my wife. That
definitely keeps us from killing each other. Keep us grounded.
Yeah. Yeah. And then, I listen to podcasts and play FIFA, that's
kinda, my other thing. So I'm a big soccer nut and then listen to a
podcast or two, that's my way of like winding down like six to
seven every night before dinner. So like, those are the main
ones.
Do you have any favorite books? Favorite podcasts?
Hmm,
I'm obviously big, Fresh Air Terry Gross fan. On The Media
actually. Cause now I'm working for a media company, but I've been
super interested in media for the last five years and how it's
changing and how it's growing. So On The Media, it's one of like
the NPR type. They're one of the most fascinating because they
really cover how everyone's talking about stuff and language,
especially what we're going through right now. I'm excited to hear
what they have to say on Friday.
I've
been trying to have books that have been not too deep or anything
since so much been going on, I need an outlet. So I've been going
back to the Gladwell books, which is kinda corny, but at the same
time, it's interesting because, from a marketer's point of view,
it's all about how to use data to understand people's actions. So
I've been going back through and reading those.
How about a favorite outdoor gear purchase or purchase for skateboarding or hiking under a hundred dollars?
I
bought my first pair of hiking boots years ago and they were a
hundred dollars, It was the first time I'd gone to REI and not had
the like freak experience. I had no idea that you needed a
membership, you know, cause I mean I rebelled pretty hard against
outdoors. I grew up in the outdoors and I was always trying to get
to the city. So it's only been in the last like five or 10 years
that I've really like made a conscious decision to try to go and
hike and camp and do all these things that my dad tried to instill
in me from a very young age.
Is anything else you want to ask of our listeners or say to our listeners?
Oh
geez, I don't know. I've been so honored to be raised by the
outdoor industry. As you said, I remind you of my dad, but I think
I remind everyone of my mom I'm kind of in equal parts of both. I
have her lack of a filter of what I say. So, I wouldn't be who I am
without growing up and hearing the stories and the culture. The
culture of needing quality products in the outdoor industry isn't
in the skateboard industry. Skateboarding products have basically
been the same for 20 or 30 years. There's not like a Caribiner that
can save your life kind of thing. The necessity isn't there in the
skateboard industry, but even a lifetime warranty or stuff like
that, being raised around a company that had a lifetime warranty
really changed how I thought about the world. And I didn't realize
how different I was for that thinking until recently, you see the
fast fashion and everything and you're like, can we just build
stuff? Why do you have to have a new t-shirt every year? People
that was a good t-shirt last year. Why don't we just have the exact
same tee-shirt next year? I mean, look at vans, you know, there's
the famous story of Geoff Rowley, who they signed to be their big
skateboarder and they asked: “what do you think we should do?” And
he said, “go back to all those classics” and that truly changed the
direction of vans. Now they're one of the biggest shoe brands in
the world and killing it.
How can people reach out and follow up with you?
Twitter @thomas__barker
Instagram @tommy_barker_